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newbie + a tech question

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chunk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: newbie + a tech question
    Posted: 08/Jul/2010 at 7:42pm
hi all the names paul aka chunk (when i was younger i looked like chunk from the goonies)....me and my brother took the plunge and bought a jetski about 6 months ago, a 98/99 seadoo gsx LTD and weve got a slight issue with it...it runs fine (topping out at 60/70mph) for about an hour then gradually loses power throughout the day until it eventually wont run anymore. anybody got any ideas what it could be?
 
Any help or info would be much appreciated
 
chunk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt rxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Jul/2010 at 8:45pm
Hi Chunk,
 
Sounds like a very interesting issue, I have never heard of that sort of problem myself. I'm sure that one of the more technical experienced guys will be able to help you out.
 
Welcome Thumbs Up
 
Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 4:06pm
bump diddy bump bump...still need help peoples
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MAD RICK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 5:28pm
I havn't heard of this problem before. Running too lean & overheating ????
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kawasaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 5:38pm
I think your correct there Rick I would make sure the cooling lines are clear from group K website

JOE'S STORY - Joe is the proud owner of a stock 1992 Kawasaki 650 stand up that he bought brand new. After two years of reliable performance, Joe decides the boat needs more power. Joe's buddy down the street says that increasing the compression on his 650 X2 made a world of difference. Joe is the kind of guy (like many of us) that likes to get the maximum he can with the minimum cost and...without compromising reliability.

Joe goes to a local shop that builds race boats and asks the race mechanic, "What is the most compression I can run in my stock 650...while running on pump gas and not losing any reliability ?" The mechanic says "Oh, about 175 psi". Joe says "You don't understand...I want to get the max out of this thing". The mechanic thinks for a moment, and then tells him " On a totally stock 650, with a good fresh top end, and 92 octane, you could run 190 -195...max!"

With this piece of free, and very reliable advice, Joe takes his boat over to his machinist friend to do the milling work. With a Snap-on gauge in hand, they figure they'll just keep cutting the head surface and squish bands until they reach 195 psi. A few hours later, it's done.

Joe goes riding for the weekend with his pals. Right away, he notices a giant increase in overall acceleration and speed. In the early going, he drives away from his buddy that's riding a brand new 650...cool. But later on in the day, they repeat the drag race. Joe and his pal are dead even. In fact, it seemed like the longer they held it wide open, the slower Joe's 650 became. The next morning, when all the guys first got on the water again, Joe had the fast boat again. But like the day before, as the engine got hotter, it got noticeably slower. Joe and his pals figured that the milled head was pushing the two year old pistons and rings past their limit.

Back home, Joe disassembled the engine and took his cylinder and pistons to his machinist buddy. After some quick measurements they discovered that the bores had .007" of clearance and the pistons were collapsed .003"...obviously his riding buddies were right. With a fresh top end and a .003" clearance bore job, Joe went out for an afternoon of break in riding. Right away the boat had even more bottom end than before, not to mention better throttle response. After two tanks of careful break in, he met up with the guys. It was time to hang this baby wide open and blow his pal's doors off. At the start, he ran off. But about 80yards out, his pal's stock 650 caught up and rode away. As Joe was riding along wide open, noticing how much slower the top end speed seemed, the rear piston seized.

This time, Joe took his entire boat to the race shop to be fixed once and for all. The mechanic called Joe the next day and said, "We found the problem...Your front cylinder had 225 psi compression. You milled the head way too much". Joe responded "I cut it to 195 psi just like you said." The mechanic then reminded Joe that he said 195 psi on a stock boat with a fresh top end. He said "Joe, nobody sets up the compression on a worn top end. Boring a worn top end can easily increase the indicated compression 20 - 30 psi. That's why engine builders always cut heads to a particular cc volume They know which volume will give ideal indicated readings on a fresh cylinder. That same volume will give slightly lower readings on a worn top end, but it won't cause a seizure when the cylinder is bored. When you originally cut your head, the mechanical compression ratio was way too high, but the top end was so worn out it couldn't create enough compression to kill itself. The excessive mechanical compression ratio only caused it to over heat and slow down a little when it got hot. But after the cylinder was bored to the correct clearance, the indicated compression became high enough to cause an instant meltdown instead of simple over heating."

He added, "Joe, the same thing might have happened if you had put on a pipe. Remember you originally asked me what was the max compression you could run on your otherwise stock 650...and I said 195 psi, which is right. But the added rpm's of a bolt on pipe will also cause a lot of additional heat. To keep that heat from killing that engine set up, you'll need to back off the compression to about 180 psi." Joe responded, "Well, that's kind of ridiculous. How is anybody supposed to know what the ideal compression is for their particular engine and bolt on parts etc."

The mechanic replied, "Well, you either do the meltdown point testing on your own, or buy the head modification from someone who has already done it. Our shop only sells a few different engine set-ups or kits for your engine. We know the ideal head volume for those few kits that we sell...and we really don't worry about the rest."

Joe's story is not an uncommon one. Stories like this one is why engine builders often shy away from offering compression information. It has nothing to do with compression ratios being some kind of top secret. It has allot more to do with the engine builder being unsure about your measuring procedure, your bolt on parts, and the amount of wear your engine has. The engine builder understands that even with the best of intentions, his free advice can result in an expensive engine failure. For him it makes better business sense to give no recommendations rather than potentially costly recommendations.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote keith t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 7:49pm
Heard this before but oh so true - and happens too many times
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 10:50pm
kawasaki...that sounds pretty much exactly the same as how mine runs.....also could the problem have anything to do with a dodgy ht lead? its got new spark plugs in but when we plugged a spark/ht lead tester on, one of them had a weak spark.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jul/2010 at 2:04am
Heat can lead to spark power breakdown...I would elaborate but i'm hammered...you're on the right track,i'll pick it up when sober...Monday....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote daveclark9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jul/2010 at 8:48am
Do you have to wait til shes cold until she will start again, had similiar problem on my aprilia rs125, the plug and lead were breaking down when they got hot.
if it doesnt use petrol, is isnt much fun
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Jul/2010 at 9:02am
dave it will still start hot and idle like crap but wont allow you to rev it....once cold it runs like a dream again
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/Jul/2010 at 6:56pm
Am not sure weather your ski is a 2 stroke or a 4.
If its a 2 stroke, then one cause could be that the crank bearings are getting tight through heat.
Check your oil pump is working correctly if it has one.
The plug leeds could also be an issue.
Over time the wire inside the leeds become brittle, when the engine is cold it aint a problem but when it gets hot the wire gets soft and breaks. This causes the spark to earth out on the rubber leed hence the power loss. You may have carbon fiber leeds on it, if so it aint that. Unscrew the plug cap off the leed and check. If its wire get some pliers and pull gently on it to see if it breaks off. If it duz ,cut the leed back about 1cm and try again. Make sure you still have enough leed left to reach the plug
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/Jul/2010 at 7:48pm
hey all i know is the oil pimp has been removed an we have to pre-mix the fuel before we pour it in but i leave that upto my brother, does anybody if you can buy just ht leads or if you have to buy an entire new coil pack?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 4213paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/Jul/2010 at 11:46pm
Had a similar problem on my 800sxr recently, sent coilpack to JetSkiSolutions.com in the states, they checked coil and replaced leads with a far superior lead than stock, no problems since ski running like a dream again. Check website for info. Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/Jul/2010 at 8:31am
Did you try it are the leads broke?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/Jul/2010 at 3:00pm
i dunno yet i havent been able to try it because of work
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wizman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/Jul/2010 at 6:46pm
Ive heard of coils overheating and causing problems when hot, but normally the symtoms tend to be a slight misfire developing into a heavy misfire.  Have you also checked the mixture (being rich maybe) cold engines prefer more fuel but as warm up, would cause a drop in power along with more exhaust smoke (black) and with that sooty spark plugs too. Ive come across the over high compression ratios too, but not experienced power drop at the top end as in my case it blew the motor before it had time.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TL1000gussie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/Jul/2010 at 9:10pm
check fuel lines as well, i had a similar problem with a 760 waveraider, it turned out to be a polystyrene bead in the fuel filler pipe, that allowed it to run for half an hour perfectly, then as the polystyrene bead compressed in the fuel line it stopped, took me ages to sort that out.
 
good luck gussie.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ray_gix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/Jul/2010 at 2:47pm
Interesting story about Joe..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote trophyyride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/Jul/2010 at 2:26am
Yeah right ray. I think I love that story. Hoping that there would be more stories to come. :D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cdm30379 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/Aug/2010 at 4:47pm
i agree
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cdm30379 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/Aug/2010 at 4:54pm
i got 4 skis with 4 different problems, lol
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sevy7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/Aug/2010 at 10:39am
I'd be calling in the pro's
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